Thursday, November 27, 2008

Killings in Mumbai—why? And who—victim and killers

I am only going to say this as I, like most humans, keep trying to find a “reason” and understand why some humans can do such things, and wonder if these are the same types who were telling lies to get Prop 8 passed.

But the interesting thing is that it is the rich and famous who are the targets in many of these attacks now, no matter what the reasons.. In our movement/community history, and probably that of all minorities and all of us, period, it has been the poor, powerless who were victims, as, say in gay bar raids. The rich either held their gay events at expensive places that the cops were afraid to raid, or they could buy their way out—that was always my explanation for why a very gay city, New Orleans, was so slow to get a movement for homosexual rights.

Now it will be interesting if these rich travelers, enjoying the good life in some fancy hotel in India, or elsewhere, finally have to face reality as our military people are—to protect them—and the prop 8 might force the celebrities to realize that they also are going to be hurt by anti-gay bigots, in church and out. And theones woo were always in power, no matterwhich political party,are now going to have to suffer or join the rest of us in making changes.

No more will the rich be able to travel all over the world and not face danger as the rest of us have all of our lives. I wonder how the average person in India—and I think today also in Thailand thinks about the rich now having to worry about the things they do.

And again, if this is the work of religious extremists, of which India has more than its share, then it is time that the rich and powerful start doing something to stop religion from being more harm than good, as the rest of us have known and experienced for years.

I reject any lies from the rightwingers that this sounds socialist—since it is the average person's taxes that are being given to the rich bankers, etc, so they are the ones practicing and benefitting from socialism. We are paying for their “business” trips to exotic lands in expensive planes, hotels, and as they eat expensive food that they are not paying for.


AJ in LA said...

Billy m'boy ... I am most often in sync with you and your usual rational thinking ... however, this "Six Degrees of Separation" between [possible] Muslim terrorists and Prop 8 is completely over-the-top by a wide stretch of the imagination. But since you posed this question to all of us, let me say a few things challenging your lack of understanding.
(1) Because you are from an entirely different world and/or culture, does not mean you are automatically able to understand how others who grew up in an entirely different sphere of influence who interpret "reason" differently from you are wrong. Right and wrong are pretty much subjective depending upon the values and beliefs of your group or culture. Take a course in cultural anthropology and you will discover that what is considered "crazy" behavior in one culture (such as cannibalism) is considered perfectly normal, often religious ritual, in different cultures. I'm sure most Christians, and especially Muslims, cannot find a "reason" or understand why some humans can go against the word of "god/Allah" and have sex with others of their gender who cannot fulfill god's command to "go forth and multiply" (without using a turkey baster). "Rational" is what you, yourself, find rational.
(2) Your tirade, as it frequently does, singles out "the rich and famous" for all the problems of the world. Well, that is quite often the case ... but do not let religion off the hook so easily. Way before there were "the rich and famous," religion was stirring up shit and slaughtering those who did not adhere to their beliefs. It's pretty much a group survival thing. There are certainly "rich and famous" gays and non-gays who have contributed to and supported gay rights in varying ways & degrees (like Elton John & David Geffen). The more it becomes non-threatening to do so, the more of them join the fray. There are also many poor, indifferent gays who have done nothing for the movement. I know several gay men who are firmly opposed to gay marriage and voted FOR Prop 8 (can you say "CowHips"?). That is why we have the rainbow flag as our emblem: Diversity R Us. Remember on 9/11 both the rich brokers & the poor restaurant busboys found equality in death. The terrorists made no distinction. Even Muslims died in the attack.
(3) The poor are powerless only if they choose to be. It was drag queens who started the Stonewall riots. I assume they were relatively poor by New York City standards.
(4) Just because one religious group (Muslims, possibly; we don't know yet) decides to kill "white demons" (British/Americans, etc.) and there are vast local collateral damages (Hindus), does not automatically equate with Mormons and Evangelicals trying to deny legal marriage status upon a minority (gay people). That's like saying California is a U.S. state and Mississippi is a U.S. state therefore they are both equal. Ugh! I neither want to be a hetero Muslim nor a gay Mississippian.
(5) Vice officers who conducted the notorious bar raids way back in the days of pre-liberation did not segregate the rich gays from the poor gays. Both were busted if the arresting cop decided "tag, you're it!" The L.A. vice squad made many gay lawyers rich.
(6) "And the ones who were always in power, no matter which political party, are now going to have to suffer or join the rest of us in making changes." No they don't. The change will come from the gay community and their growing number of supporters who are unrelenting in their demand for change. We're not going to change Bill O'Reilly's mind. We're going to step over his carcass and march on. Already, the news media and pundits are saying that, were the election held today, Prop 8 would be defeated. Why? Because nationwide protests made us visible as people who demanded certain inalienable rights. That did more to wake up Americans to reality than all those boring "No on Prop 8" ads showing two old people alluding to a gay daughter and her partner. Nothing can stop an idea whose time has come.
(7) "And again, if this is the work of religious extremists, of which India has more than its share, then it is time that the rich and powerful start doing something to stop religion from being more harm than good, as the rest of us have known and experienced for years." Wake up, Billy. That ain't gonna happen. Some 85% of Americans claim to be religious and far too many preachers, bishops, rabbis, ayatollahs, imams, etc., are now super rich and super powerful because they control the thinking and the every day lives of their ignorant followers. Good luck changing thousands of years of religious doctrine and behavior. Call me when you've collared all those religious extremists and, like the magi, I will come bearing gifts.
Thanks for letting me rant. Since the election I don't have SquirtGolf & Margo to kick around any more. So, "tag, you're it."

Billy Glover said...

My ego lets me think that my thoughts stirred you up-after the long trip to Laguna and back- as much as we think the protests (so in a sense the loss of Prop 8) has stirred up not only OUR community but has given the lazy media something to discuss for a second since there is a vacancy due to the end of the election.

I find all of your points valid. But we are both saying that religion is our enemy even if it has done some good, somewhere, possibly. That was, I wondered, the possible connection between India and Prop 8-religion. And I standby my accusation that the rich can escape the consequences of being arrested at a raid-but usually they go places the cops are scared to raid.